"Columbine To Va. Tech To NIU: Gun-Free Zones Or Killing Fields?"

I have a new op-ed at Investors Business Daily:

As Northern Illinois University restarts classes this week, one thing is clear: Six minutes proved too long. It took six minutes before the police were able to enter the classroom that horrible Thursday, and in that short time five people were murdered, 16 wounded.

Six minutes is actually record-breaking speed for the police arriving at such an attack, but it was simply not fast enough. Still, the police were much faster than at the Virginia Tech attack last year.

The previous Thursday, five people were killed in the city council chambers in Kirkwood, Mo. There was even a police officer already there when the attack occurred. . . .

UPDATE: Fox News is reporting a gun threat at at small Ferrum College (1,000 students). I guess I would like to know if this is a concealed handgun permit holder. If it is the school's president is threatening suspension as a first initial response. The president obviously doesn't understand the notion of deterrence. From Fox News:
Ferrum College canceled classes and went on lockdown Tuesday as police searched for a suspicious person on campus.

A Franklin County Sheriff's Department spokeswoman said college President Jennifer Braaten activated an alert system and ordered the lockdown after receiving reports of a suspicious male on the campus. Classes were canceled for the day. . . .

No shots have been fired and there have been no injuries.

Labels: ,


Kentucky Considers Letting Permitted Concealed Handguns on University Campuses

This article is from the middle of January, but it continues to show how the debate is slowly changing on this issue:

As the rhetoric in Frankfort rolled to a boil, Kentucky's public universities expressed solid opposition Wednesday to a bill that would allow people to bring firearms onto campuses as long as the weapons remained in vehicles.

In Frankfort, state Rep. Kathy Stein, chairwoman of the House Judiciary Committee, said the bill amounts to "micromanaging" institutions of higher education, and the legislation is unlikely to get out of her committee for a vote in the full House. "Meddling in the affairs of the universities and community and technical colleges is not high on our list of priority issues," Stein said.

That infuriated the bill's sponsor, Rep. Bob Damron, D-Nicholasville, who said he plans to step up his work to force the bill past Stein, whom he labeled a "gun-control Sally."

Damron said he thinks he now has more than 50 co-sponsors and could win if Stein doesn't block House Bill 114.

The Jessamine County lawmaker, who is not on the Judiciary Committee, predicted his bill could get approved by 10 of the 15 committee members and would pass on the House floor 85-15. He declined to identify the members who would vote for the bill but said the list of co-sponsors gives a clear indication of overwhelming bipartisan support. . . .

Labels: ,


Man with concealed handgun permit has three defensive gun uses this year

According to WISH TV channel 8, a man in Indianapolis has used a gun defensively three times in less than two months:

"Apparently he heard a noise outside, went outside to see what was going on, and related to the detectives that this individual came at him with a knife, and which time he fired a shot," IMPD Sgt. Paul Thompson said.

Burns told detectives the man he shot was coming out of his car, perhaps trying to steal it.

The victim was hit in the chest and taken to Wishard Hospital in serious condition. While doctors work to save the victim's life, detectives work to figure out a complex case.

Police will determine if this shooting was indeed self-defense. What they'll also look at is the fact that Mr. Burns has been involved in two other shootings, this year alone. . . .

Metro Police tell 24-Houre News 8 that Richard Burns does have a valid gun permit. . . .

Labels: ,

Famous Author John Steinbeck Asked for Concealed Handgun Permit

The story on Steinbeck is here:

Just in time for the commemoration of John Steinbeck's birthday, local historian and fine arts maven Steve Hauk has come up with an interesting new tidbit about Monterey County's beloved dead author.

Hauk managed to locate Steinbeck's 1942 application for a New York state license to carry a concealed weapon.

Hauk posits the theory that Steinbeck may have had grounds for arming himself.

"He had good reason to fear," Hauk said in a posting on his redroom.com blog. "Amazing how life is all just a coverup.". . . .

Character witnesses on the gun license application included artist Henry Varnum Poor and actor Burgess Meredith. The reason given for the permit request was "self protection." . . . .



Interior Department may adopt new rules that let concealed carry permit holders carry guns

The Secretary of the Interior would like the new rules drafted by April. It is believed that the rules would those eligible to carry a permit in a state to carry a concealed handgun in the national parks in that state. This would take the pressure off the Democrats in the Senate who have been trying to avoid a vote because they knew that it would pass and possibly produce a difficult vote for Obama and Hillary.

Thanks to Fred Miller.



"States consider gun-access laws"

Move to let people keep guns in their cars when they are at work:

•Arizona. State Rep. Jonathan Paton, a Republican, says he sponsored his bill last month after a constituent told him he drives isolated roads to work but is not allowed to keep a handgun in his car. "It just comes down to the right of self-defense," Paton says.

•Tennessee. The proposed legislation, introduced in January, excludes correctional facilities and properties owned by the federal government. An amendment may be added to allow businesses that have secure parking areas that are less prone to crime to ban guns there.

"I respect property and business rights," says state Sen. Paul Stanley, a Republican sponsoring the bill. "But I also think that some issues need to overshadow this. … We have a right to keep and bear arms."

•Georgia. The legislature is considering a bill to allow licensed gun owners to leave their gun in a locked vehicle on their company's parking lot if the employer permits it. . . .


Permit holder protects himself from an on road attack in Arlington, Texas

Note that it is the Escalade driver, the permit holder, who sought out the police for help:

Police said a man driving a Cadillac Escalade was driving on Texas 360 near Interstate 30 when five people drove up next to him in a Chevrolet Suburban and began staring at him.
The man told police that the people in the Suburban followed him onto westbound I-30 when they rolled down their windows and pointed guns at him. The Escalade driver -- who has a conceal and carry gun permit -- pointed his gun back at them.
Police said people from both vehicles began shooting at each other as they exited Cooper Street. Investigators are trying to determine who fired first.
The Escalade driver drove through residential streets trying to evade the Suburban when he saw an officer on Northwood Court and approached him. Three of the people in the Suburban told the officer the man was harassing them and then fled on foot, leaving two of their friends -- one who was shot in the leg. . . .

Labels: ,

"Utah students hide guns, head to class"

CNN has this story:

SALT LAKE CITY, Utah (CNN) -- The senior at the University of Utah gets dressed and then decides which gun is easiest to conceal under his clothes.

If he's wearing a T-shirt, he'll take a smaller, low-profile gun to class. If he's wearing a coat, he may carry a different weapon, he said.

He started carrying a gun to class after the massacre at Virginia Tech, but the student says he's not part of the problem of campus shootings and could instead be part of a solution. . . .

CNN also has an interactive chart that shows to some extent what is happening in different states. The problem with the chart is that it doesn't show which states leave the decision up to individual campuses. Right now it emphasizes Utah and Colorado which let students carry guns on all campuses (in Colorado the one exception in the University of Colorado, as they note).


The New York Times goes after legislation that would let permit holders have guns with them in the national parks.

February 20, 2008
New York Times

Packing Heat in the Parks

A sound and bipartisan public lands bill is being held up in the Senate in behalf of the gun lobby’s attempt to overturn decades-old safety regulations barring people from carrying loaded guns in national parks.

Well, despite the impression created here, it is a bipartisan group of senators who have tried to change the ban in the national parks. At least eight Democratic Senators have asked that the ban be lifted. The restriction has been in place since the early 1980s, and there is no evidence that I know of that permit holders were creating any problems prior to the implementation of the ban.

Owners are now required to keep their guns unloaded, disassembled and stored when in national parks and wildlife refuges. Senator Tom Coburn, Republican of Oklahoma, is threatening to block the public lands bill unless it includes his amendment to allow the packing of live firearms in the parks.

There is no justification for such a change. Senator Coburn’s office is reduced to offering a scenario out of a “Death Wish” movie: “Guns locked in your trunk are of no use when a rapist is attacking your family.” A coalition of retired park rangers has warned that wielding live firearms would increase the risk to public safety and more easily empower game poachers than family vigilantes

Unloaded, disassembled and stored guns are useless for people being able to defend themselves. Those in the parks face risks not only from wild animals but also human criminals, and there is no reason to expect a fast response time from a 911 call, even if such a call were possible.

The Coburn amendment is another attempt by the gun lobby to extend laissez-faire gun rights to college campuses, churches and workplaces even as the nation suffers firearm fatalities and rampages that take 30,000 lives a year. The Senate majority leader, Harry Reid, is right to oppose it as a poison-pill intrusion into the lands bill, which — among a multitude of useful and largely noncontroversial provisions — would authorize new wilderness areas and safeguard historic and cultural sites from coast to coast.

Guns do cause harm, but they also protect people from harm. The question is what the net effect is, and guns protect people far more frequently than they cause harm. Can the New York Times provide any evidence that permit holders pose any risk to the safety or health of others? No. Why is this provision a "poison pill"? All this provision would do is allow the permitting rules in a particular state to apply to those permit holders who enter a park in that state.

The temptation for lawmakers to pander to the gun lobby is never-ending, and 47 senators are on record in favor of tolerating loaded weapons in the parks. But at least their position was expressed in a plea to the Interior Department, where a hearing process would presumably encourage open public debate. The Coburn amendment is the gun culture’s dangerous end run around the public interest.

The discussion here with terms like "pander" is unfortunate. Would the Times want people to refer to its arguments as hysterical and emotional? Proponents of this change care about people's safety, and the Times references no evidence that permit holders pose a real risk to others.

Thanks to Ben Zycher for sending this link to me.

Labels: , ,


Handgun permit holder stops rape

Here is a story from the Associated Press via Knoxnews.com:

BRIGHTON, Tenn. - Police say a man attempting to rape a girl and a woman was shot and killed after one escaped and alerted her nearby cousin.

Investigators say 44-year-old David Fleming forcibly entered the home of two sisters, ages 22 and 12, in an apparent rape attempt in Tipton County.

After being tied up, one of the girls escaped and ran to the home of her next-door neighbor and cousin, Keith Ingram.

Police say Ingram shot and killed Fleming after he attempted to attack him.

Fleming had a prior conviction for attempted rape and was a registered sex offender. Ingram had no criminal record and a valid handgun permit. . . .

Labels: ,

University Police Chiefs in Arizona oppose letting concealed carry permits on campus

This story can be found here:

Police chiefs from Arizona State University, the University of Arizona and Northern Arizona University testified that allowing gun-permit holders to bring firearms onto school grounds would create confusion when officers respond to a shooting incident. It could lead to the loss of additional innocent lives, they said.

"Our job is difficult enough. I don't think there is a solution to the violence and the shootings we are experiencing on campuses," said ASU Police Chief John Pickens, who previously served as director of public safety at Northern Illinois University, where a gunman last week killed five people and wounded more than a dozen others before taking his own life.

Can they point to any examples where these concerns have actually occurred? No. Just hypothetical worst case examples. But it would be helpful if they could point to even a few examples to justify their fears. Then at least the discussion could be one of benefits versus costs.

Labels: ,

Do Democrats really believe that 18 to 22 year olds should be allowed to vote?

News note from Washington State. Here is an amusing note from yesterday:

Sen. Ed Murray, D - Seattle, the main proponent for SB 6841 [an act that would restrict possession of firearms at institutions of higher education - tf], argued that studies showing incomplete brain development until late teens or early 20s mean “many students do not have the ability to make judgements about guns.” Schoesler [our Republican senator - tf] disagreed, describing university students as having “the best and brightest minds,” and being capable of making good judgments. . . .

Thanks to Sonya Jones for sending me this link.


Kansas CIty murder rate down in first year of right-to-carry law

I am not going to argue that by itself this is evidence that right-to-carry laws are good (many other things can happen in a year), but at least the fears put forward predicting problems were proven false.

Crime down in KCK last year
The Kansas City Star
After two years of seeing reported violent crimes increase, Kansas City, Kan., saw the number of such crimes drop 5.5 percent last year.

More notably is that homicides fell 45.7 percent, from 46 homicides in 2006 to 25 last year. The last time the number of homicides was this low was in 1986, Brown said.

“We are very happy with (2007) stats,” said Capt. James Brown, a Kansas City, Kan., Police Department spokesman. “However, for those of us who have been in the business long enough, we know that there are curves that occur.” . . .

What is disappointing is that the article completely left out the fact that last year was the first year of the right to carry law in the state.

Thanks very much to David Cooper for sending me this link.

Labels: ,


Arizona debating letting concealed handgun permit holders in schools

The debate on letting concealed handgun permit holders in schools picks up steam in Arizona:

Supporters say the permit-holders should be allowed to carry guns at schools so they can defend themselves and others if a gunman starts shooting people and police haven't yet arrived at the scene.

Opponents say police officers urgently responding to a school shooting might have difficulty distinguishing innocent permit-holders from the gun. . . .

Could someone please give me an example of when this concern has actually come true during one of these events?

Thanks to Scott Davis for the link.



Chicago Public Radio Panel Discussion on Northern Illinois University Attack

Chicago Public Radio's 848 had "a panel of experts for a roundtable discussion on guns and violence in Illinois and beyond." I was one of the members of the panel. You can listen to the discussion here.

Labels: , ,

More on concealed handguns

Utah is considering more legislation that will make carrying concealed handguns easier.

A student at the University of Arizona chimes in here.

Boston radio talk show host Michael Graham has a discussion here and here.



More on eliminating gun free zones on campuses

Neil Cavuto has a segment on it here.

ABC News GMA has a discussion here.

I guess that I don't know why the proponents of letting concealed handguns on campus (particularly in the Cavuto interview) don't address the objections more directly. In particular, the concern about the risks of something bad happening. Why not simply point out that we have a lot of experience where permitted concealed handguns are allowed and yet no one can point to bad things happening. Point out that when these attacks have been stopped it usually is stopped without shots even being fired.

Labels: ,

Bouncers with concealed handgun permits stop attack at nightclub

Another example from Michigan where a permit holder has stopped an attack:

Man killed in shootout with bouncers at Detroit club
Santiago Esparza / The Detroit News
DETROIT -- Police are investigating a fatal shooting that occurred this morning after a group of men were thrown out of Plan B nightclub at 205 W. Congress in downtown.
The men were causing a disturbance and were escorted out the rear of the club by three bouncers, said Detroit Police Sgt. Eren Stephens-Bell.
One of the men in the group shot a bouncer in the back, Stephens-Bell said. Two other bouncers then pulled their guns and shot the man dead who had shot their co-worker, Stephens-Bell said.
The wounded bouncer was taken to an area hospital were he is listed in temporary serious condition.
Police did not release the identities of those involved in the incident.
The bouncers had permits to carry a concealed weapon.

Labels: ,


Newsweek Interviews Students for Concealed Carry on Campus

The Newsweek interview can be seen here:

It was a sickeningly familiar scene. A student-gunman opened fire Thursday during a lecture at Northern Illinois University, killing five and wounding 15 before turning the gun on himself. The deadly spree was the fifth school shooting this week—and a traumatic reminder that for all the efforts to improve campus security nationwide since the massacre at Virginia Tech last year, students and faculty remain disturbingly vulnerable.

A nonprofit organization called Students for Concealed Carry on Campus would like to change that. The group, whose 12,000 members nationwide include college students, faculty and parents, champions legislation that would allow licensed gun owners to carry concealed weapons on campus, in the hope that an alert and well-trained citizen could stop a deranged shooter before he or she could do serious damage. According to the National Conference on State Legislatures, 13 states are currently considering some form of "concealed carry" legislation aimed at campuses. Utah is the group's model; after a state Supreme Court ruling found that the state university had violated a law allowing permit holders to carry concealed weapons, the school agreed that guns could legally be carried on its grounds. Some states, like Colorado, do not explicitly ban licensed students and faculty from carrying hidden weapons onto school grounds, though most universities in such states impose restrictions of their own.

There are signs that the "concealed carry" group was making headway even before the tragedy at Northern Illinois. Earlier this month the South Dakota House of Representatives voted overwhelmingly to force state universities to allow students to carry weapons on campus, according to GOP state Rep. Tom Brunner. The bill, which Brunner sponsored, recently died in the state senate, but Brunner said he intends to bring it back as soon as he can. "It's not an issue that's going to go away," Brunner said. "We feel pretty passionate [that] students and teachers should have a right to defend themselves, and weapons on campus should be a part of the plan." . . .

Those interested in joining Students for Concealed Carry on Campus can do so at facebook here. The group has a second national protest coming up from April 21 to 25th.

Thanks to Rich for sending the link from Newsweek to me.

Labels: ,

Concealed Handgun Permit Holder Stops Man being Beaten by Three People

In Pittsfield Township, Michigan a permit holder stopped a man from being beaten:

While stopped at a red light at Carpenter and Packard roads a few minutes later, the victim said the driver of the van confronted him and began yelling. He said he exited his vehicle and was punched in the face and knocked to the ground, Heller said.

Two women, including the woman he tried to help, got out of the van and began hitting and stomping the victim while he was on the ground, Heller said.

A passing motorist stopped his car, pulled a gun and demanded the trio stop beating the man, Heller said.

Police responded to several calls reporting a man holding people at gunpoint. Officers determined the man with a gun had a legitimate concealed weapons permit and was trying to help, Heller said.

Officers arrested an 18-year-old Ann Arbor man and two 19-year-old women. They were released pending charges.

Labels: ,


Some don't even trust sitting judges with concealed handguns

I read this a couple of times, but it sure looks as if some believe that you can't even trust sitting judges with concealed handgun permits. Of course, the rest of the story doesn't contain any evidence that these fears have actually turned out to be justified:

Judge Charles Kahn, who was criticized in Allen's opinion, was described by his colleagues as acting, at times, "volatile," "irrational" and "schizoid." At one point, after Kahn signed up for a concealed weapons training class, the marshal in charge of court security testified that he put a lock on the door to the judges' robing room to stop Kahn from getting into a retirement party. . . .



Majority of the U.S. Senators Support Allowing Guns in National Parks

National Park Service currently forbids permitted Right-to-Carry guns in our national parks and wildlife refuges. Now 51 Senators have now written Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne to change the policy. 911 isn't always possible to call when you are camping in a national park, whether one is threatened by a bear or a criminal. Interestingly, Russ Feingold (D-WI) signed a letter even though Wisconsin is one of only two states that ban concealed handguns.


Permit holder stops Robbery in Houston Texas

Here is a story of another robbery stopped by a permit holder:

Authorities have identified a man who was fatally shot while allegedly attempting to rob a man in a southeast Houston parking lot.

Calvin Earl Taylor, 23, was shot several times by 36-year-old Keenan Procter, whom Taylor and Omari Duana Stephens, 24, allegedly attempted to rob in the 500 block of Gulfgate Center Mall Wednesday night. Taylor was pronounced dead at the scene.

The incident occurred around 9:55 p.m. when Stephens and Taylor allegedly attempted to rob Procter in a parking lot, Houston police said. Procter, who has a valid concealed handgun permit, then fatally shot Taylor, authorities said. Procter was not injured.

Stephens was charged with aggravated robbery and is currently in Harris County Jail in lieu of $30,000 bail.

The shooting will be referred to a Harris County grand jury.

Labels: ,



W. Scott Lewis with Students for Concealed Carry on Campus announces that they will again protest gun free zones on campuses on April 21-25, 2008.

Labels: ,


Debate in Washington State over Whether to Create or eliminate Gun-Free Zones

Sonya Jones sent me this link and all I can say is that Senator Murray should be thankful that Sonya isn't working on the Senate Committee on Higher Education.

The bill offered by Sen. Ed Murray, D-Seattle, would ban weapons at colleges that host high school students. That would include community colleges that offer the Running Start program, and universities when high school students are touring.

In response to Murray's bill, Sen. Pam Roach, R-Auburn, introduced her own measure that would prohibit universities from banning concealed weapons. Her argument is that people with permits to carry weapons would make campuses safer. Most universities now ban weapons on campus, but that is not a state law. . . .

But Roach declared, "Based on the policy of the last 30 years, it may be evident that this is a failed policy, there have been 38 college and school shootings since the prohibition of guns in schools was enacted. There were only two recorded during the 150 years preceding that prohibition." . . .

"I want to make sure the record reflects that Virginia Tech was a gun free zone, and results (were) painfully predictable," said Brian Judy, testifying for the National Rifle Association. "Only the victims were gun free."

But gun foes said guns on campuses would create more trouble.

"Well-intentioned people who have firearms and want to save the day often end up adding to the violence of the situation or becoming victims themselves," said Kristen Comer, executive director of Washington Cease Fire. "Any time we start to get into the area of vigilante justice, it's a bit precarious."

I think that I have an easy response to Kristen Comer's concern below about what might go wrong with allowing concealed handguns onto campuses: its called experience. Why do we have to debate about what might happen when we have a lot of experience about what actually happens in these circumstances?

Labels: ,

Citizens banned from Carrying Concealed handguns where City Council Attack occurred

At least five people were killed in Kirkwood, Missouri last night at a city council meeting:

A total of seven people were shot, including the mayor and several city officials, before police shot and killed the gunman. The mayor is in critical condition. . . .

Citizens are banned from having concealed handguns at these public meetings. The only exception are members of the city council and a reporter might have inside information on whether any of them have concealed handgun permits.

Apparently some people were reduced to throwing chairs at the killer to stop the attack:

At some point he fired at City Attorney John Hessel, who told McNichols he fended the attacker off by throwing chairs. She saw Hessel later, appearing uninjured except for a knot on his head.

While there was a police officer in the room where the attack occurred, apparently the killer shot the officer immediately when the attack started. This is a typical problem with uniformed guards where killers either wait for them to leave the area or kill them first. This is one big advantage of concealed handgun laws.

Meanwhile, there was a shooting at a University in Louisiana on Thursday and of course it occurred in another gun free zone.

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) - A young woman killed two female students in a college classroom at a vocational college Friday, then killed herself, police said.
The students apparently were shot in their seats in the second-floor classroom at Louisiana Technical College, Sgt. Don Kelly said.
Officers ran into the building within four minutes of the first 911 call, which came at 8:36 a.m., he said.
"There was mass pandemonium, people running," Kelly said. "One officer - the first into the classroom - told me he could still smell gunpowder."
The students' names and ages were not immediately released, and it was not clear whether the shooter also was a student.
The school offers classes in a dozen subjects including early childhood education, practical nursing, drafting and welding.

In this case, even though the police officer got to the classroom very quickly it was still not fast enough.

UPDATE: Three attacks in gun free zones in one week discussed here.

Labels: ,


Places where concealed handguns can be carried in Georgia expanded

See this:

Debate continues in the Georgia General Assembly over weapons. But on Thursday the House voted 111-58 to allow Georgians with concealed gun permits to carry their weapon at bus stops, other transportation facilities, houses of worship and restaurants. According to the Telegraph, the House vote expands a move by the Senate allowing people holding permits to carry guns at public parks & restaurants without alcohol licenses.

More on what is happening in Georgia regarding gun free zones can be found here.

Labels: ,


Movement in Arizona to cut back on gun free zones

Now Arizona joins other states in discussing ending these gun free zones:

The proposal, Senate Bill 1214, would exempt concealed-carry permit holders from a state law that bars individuals from knowingly carrying deadly weapons onto school property. If it becomes law, the measure would allow teachers and anyone else with a valid permit to carry their weapon onto the grounds of any public or private K-12 school, college or university in the state.

Supporters say the measure would provide an additional ring of security on campuses hit with a string of shootings in recent years. The most recent of which was last year's at Virginia Tech, which left 33 dead. The shootings have come in spite of heightened campus security and policies that are increasingly aimed at scrubbing any and all weapons from school grounds.

"Apparently, it hasn't really protected us . . . " noted Senate Majority Leader Thayer Verschoor, a Gilbert Republican and co-sponsor of the proposal. The primary sponsor is Sen. Karen Johnson, R-Mesa.

Verschoor noted that concealed-carry permit holders must pass a criminal background check and take a gun-safety course, among other requirements.

But Rep. David Lujan, a Phoenix Democrat and president of the Phoenix Union High School District board, said he is "uncomfortable with having weapons on school campuses." . . .

WIth all the decades of experience in right-to-carry states before these gun free zones were imposed in 1995 it would be nice if those who are uncomfortable could point to some bad examples where permit holders have caused problems.

Labels: ,

Learning from Virginia Tech in Indiana?

A bill has been introduced in Indiana to help stop a similar attack from occurring there:

INDIANA - A new bill could allow you to bring a gun into a state building.

For those of you who wish you could carry your hand gun into state buildings. Your wish may soon become a reality. An Indiana senator is trying to pass a bill that would allow that to happen.

Incidents like this one at Virginia Tech is what prompted Indiana Senator John Waterman to introduce a bill that would allow folks to carry guns inside state buildings. Buildings like Indiana State University.

"If something would happen like Virginia Tech at least you'd have some people on campus that would be armed and be able to stop it before too many people get hurt," said Waterman. . . .

Labels: ,


Bill to let concealed handguns in places that served alcohol in Tennessee

A debate is being stirred up over cutting back on gun free zones in Tennessee:

The latest example of this pro-gun mindset is a proposal in the legislature to allow people with handgun-carry permits to carry guns into establishments that sell alcohol. The bill would allow a gun to be carried into the place as long as the person with the gun is not consuming alcohol and as long as the owner of the establishment has not banned firearms and has not posted a sign saying no guns are allowed.
The Senate passed the bill 24-6.
When assessing all the places where an ounce of public safety should be considered, barrooms would be one of the last places where any sober soul would allow guns to be carried. But here's a move afoot in the legislature saying it makes perfect sense to allow people to pack heat in saloons.
Proponents of the bill say it's all about self-defense, with a litany of scenarios where it would be a good idea to have a pistol handy. Some recount real-life situations where, by gosh, if only someone had a gun they could have stopped this bad thing from happening, naturally assuming the shooter would always make perfect decisions and have perfect aim, just like in the comic books. Or they think of all the "what-if" situations, like what if a bad guy is going to throw the prom queen on a railroad track and wouldn't it be great if somebody had a gun to shoot the bad guy down before a train came roaring by. So we need a law. . . .

1) Name some examples where a concealed handgun permit holder has harmed others in such a place. (I can think of one minor example.)
2) "Some recount real-life situations" -- well, I can give you lots of examples, and when this happens it is amazing how infrequently permit holders have actually had to fire their weapon to stop the attack. The problem is that these "gun free zones" attract attacks.

Labels: ,


New Texas Gun Laws Raise Concerns

Two new Texas laws stir up opposition:

The state's new castle law has grabbed the spotlight. But some say a lesser-known gun law, which also took effect in September, could have greater consequences.

The law allows Texans to carry guns in their cars, even without a concealed handgun license. As long you meet the law's other requirements – such as not being a gang member, refraining from criminal acts and keeping the gun out of sight – you can pack heat in your glove box.

"Castle is just kind of yawn," said Alice Tripp, legislative director for the Texas State Rifle Association. Texans have always enjoyed robust rights of self-defense. But the gun carrying law "is dramatic," she said.

Nicknamed the "Carjacking Law" by some, it is designed in part to give law-abiding drivers the right to carry a gun for protection.

But Dallas County District Attorney Craig Watkins worries that criminals may benefit most. He says the law, which also allows people to carry guns from their homes to their cars, has created a loophole that a defense lawyer could drive an armored tank through. . . .

Each new law seems to generate a lot of fear, but I assume that it gets harder and harder to generate a lot of opposition as the predictions prove to be wrong.

Thanks to Scott Davis for sending this link to me.

Labels: ,


Concealed Carry Permit Holder Successfully Defends Himself Against Four Men

From the Orlando Sentinel:

Orlando victim turns gun on 4 robbers
A private investigator fires his gun as the 4 men run off with his cell phone and wallet.

Henry Pierson Curtis | Sentinel Staff Writer
January 18, 2008

An armed citizen surprised four men who robbed him at gunpoint last week.

After being ordered to his knees, Russel Olofson warned the men that "they should think about it," according to an Orlando police report released this week.

A private investigator with military training, Olofson, 24, told police the robbers snatched his cell phone and a wallet containing his concealed-weapon permit shortly before 10 p.m. Friday outside Ridge Club Apartments.

After the robbers took his items, Olofson stood up, drew his Springfield XD sub-compact 9 mm handgun "and fired two rounds toward male #1 with the silver handgun, possibly striking him," the report states. "Males #2, #3, and #4 then ran southeast . . . and male #1 ran northeast . . ."

A search by police quickly turned up a pistol likely used in the holdup, the report said. . . .

Thanks to Todd P for sending this link to me.

Labels: ,

Black man with permitted concealed handgun successfully defends himself against two racists

Those interested can read the entire story here:

No murder charge in racially fueled road rage incident
By Paula McMahon | South Florida Sun-Sentinel
January 17, 2008

No murder charges will be filed in a racially motivated road rage incident last month that left one of the aggressors dead at the hands of the victim, Broward prosecutors said Wednesday.

Broward Sheriff's detectives initially arrested Steven Lonzisero, 43, of Cooper City, on a charge of felony murder. He is one of two white men who investigators say confronted a black driver on Dec. 13 in Deerfield Beach, shouting racial slurs and trying to drag him from his vehicle.

Hygens Labidou, 49, of Wellington, pulled a gun and shot his two attackers, police said. Lonzisero survived, but his accomplice, Edward Borowsky, 28, of Cooper City, died four days later.

Investigators determined that Labidou, who has a concealed weapons permit, acted in self-defense and faces no legal jeopardy. . . .

The afternoon incident started when Lonzisero and Borowsky objected to Labidou's driving and they blocked in his truck near Powerline and Green roads. The two men banged on Labidou's truck and shouted "N-----, get out of the truck," according to police reports. Borowsky wielded a knife and Lonzisero kicked the truck door aggressively and ordered Labidou out, witnesses told detectives. . . . .

Labels: ,

"Professor Wants Right To Carry"

Dorn Peterson, an avid shooter with a valid Virginia concealed-handgun permit, travels to JMU's campus almost every weekday for his job as a physics professor. But he can't bring his gun with him.
I wish that I could understand why there is such strong opposition to even professors carrying concealed handguns on university property. This article provides an example of one professor who would be willing to bear the cost of carrying in order to be able to protect others. It also provides no explicit evidence why people should be fearful of him carrying his gun with him.

He said he favors broader legislation allowing those with concealed-handgun permits to carry guns at colleges and other places, including government office buildings, that aren't specifically outlined in the Virginia laws.

Peterson said he would rather see a legislator vote on the matter rather than have an "unelected bureaucrat" make the decision for him.

"The president of the university is unelected," Peterson said. "Why should he be able to override the legislature?"

Peterson said that law-abiding citizens should have the right to defend themselves and, in some cases, help minimize shooting sprees like the one at Virginia Tech.

"It helps defend everybody," Peterson said. "If somebody had been prepared and carrying, this guy wouldn't have been able to go around and kill people after he chained the door."

People with the proper firearms training who get a permit are not the ones who shouldn't be allowed to carry guns, he said.

"I understand that people that aren't around guns are upset about the concept, but people that plan ahead and get the training are less likely to commit a crime," said Peterson.

Thanks very much to Scott Davis for sending this link to me.

Labels: ,


Tennessee Whittling Down The Number of Gun Free Zones?

Senate passes bill permitting guns in bars, nightclubs
Thursday, January 17, 2008
By Andy Sher
Nashville Bureau
NASHVILLE -- Tennesseans with gun permits could carry their weapons into nightclubs, bars and restaurants that sell alcohol under a bill that sailed Wednesday through the Senate on a 24-6 vote.

One Senate critic raised the specter that the would-be law might result in Wild West-like saloon shoot-outs.

But the bill's sponsor, Sen. Doug Jackson, D-Dickson, argued that similar laws in 34 other states have resulted in no such problems.

"I've had people say that guns and alcohol do not mix, and I will agree that until you look at the facts -- until you understand this issue -- that is certainly an emotional argument," Sen. Jackson said. "But unfortunately, it's an argument that does not carry the day." . . .

Labels: ,


Pistol-Packin' Preacher

Preacher who carries a gun at a hospital:

Pistol-Packin' Preacher Serves Hospital, Sheriff
By Joan Elliott, Missourian Feature Writer

He's attired just as one would expect a chaplain to be attired - dress slacks and sport jacket, gold cross in his lapel and a tie boldly emblazoned with a cross and a church. But in his car he carries a gun, a gun permit and a bullet-proof vest since he also is a commissioned law enforcement officer who graduated from the Missouri Sheriff's Academy.

He's Don Covington and for most of his adult life he's merged the two careers with a single goal in mind - to help others.

"People have called me the 'Pistol-Packin' Preacher' and that is the title of the autobiography I'm writing," Covington said. "If I went to a crime scene with an officer as a civilian I'd have to stay in the patrol car. But as a reserve deputy I can help as a backup officer." . . .



Kansas Issues 10,000 Concealed Carry Permits

Here is an article from the LJWorld (Lawrence and Douglas County, Kansas), January 14, 2008:

State issues 10,000 permits
Chad Lawhorn

Legislators allowed the Kansas Attorney General’s Office to begin accepting permit applications in July 2006, but licenses weren’t issued until January 2007. A total of 10,567 have been issued through the first week of this month.

Chuck Sexson, director of the concealed carry program for the Attorney General’s Office, said the office was busiest with applications in December 2006 and January 2007, when more than 1,000 were received in both months. But since September, the numbers have leveled off at about 350 or fewer per month. . . .

Here is the county by county data:

Labels: ,


Permit Holder Defends Himself Against Three Armed Attackers

Here is a news report that was filed on January 6th from Orange County, Florida. The permit holder "found himself staring down the barrel of someone else's gun." "I felt that my life was endanger." "If I hadn't had my gun, I was convinced that I could have possibly died."

Thanks very much to Todd P for sending me the link for this.

Labels: ,


Permit holder loses permit for pointing gun a store customer

I try to keep track of the good and the bad cases. Here is one of the extremely rare cases where a permit holder did something wrong and he was punished for doing it.

Ingram clerk points gun, will lose license: police

By Bobby Kerlik
Wednesday, January 9, 2008

Ten days after shooting a would-be robber multiple times, an Ingram convenience store clerk again pulled a gun -- this time on a customer, police said Tuesday.
"They were in a heated argument over change from a transaction," Ingram police Chief John Doherty said, describing clerk Kaelin Weber's encounter with the customer. "Words were exchanged, and he felt he was being intimidated."

Weber, 24, was cleared of wrongdoing in the Christmas morning shooting, but the latest incident will cost him his license to carry a concealed weapon, said Allegheny County Sheriff Bill Mullen, who grants gun permits. . . .



Evaluating Michigan's Right-to-carry Law After 6 years

Dawson Bell, a reporter at the Detroit Free Press, has a very interesting news article evaluating Michigan's experience after 6 years with the law. While these articles are frequently seen six months or a year after a right-to-carry law has gone into effect, it is really extremely rare to see this type of analysis piece done after that point in time. Here is about half the article, but the entire piece is definitely worth reading:

Michigan sees fewer gun deaths — with more permits
January 6, 2008
Six years after new rules made it much easier to get a license to carry concealed weapons, the number of Michiganders legally packing heat has increased more than six-fold.
But dire predictions about increased violence and bloodshed have largely gone unfulfilled, according to law enforcement officials and, to the extent they can be measured, crime statistics.
The incidence of violent crime in Michigan in the six years since the law went into effect has been, on average, below the rate of the previous six years. The overall incidence of death from firearms, including suicide and accidents, also has declined.
More than 155,000 Michiganders -- about one in every 65 -- are now authorized to carry loaded guns as they go about their everyday affairs, according to Michigan State Police records.
About 25,000 people had CCW permits in Michigan before the law changed in 2001.
"I think the general consensus out there from law enforcement is that things were not as bad as we expected," said Woodhaven Police Chief Michael Martin, cochair of the legislative committee for the Michigan Association of Chiefs of Police. "There are problems with gun violence. But ... I think we can breathe a sigh of relief that what we anticipated didn't happen."
John Lott, a senior research scientist at the University of Maryland who has done extensive research on the role of firearms in American society, said the results in Michigan since the law changed don't surprise him.
Academic studies of concealed weapons laws that generally allow citizens to obtain permits have shown different results, Lott said. About two-thirds of the studies suggest the laws reduce crime; the rest show no net effect, he said.
But no peer-reviewed study has ever shown that crime increases when jurisdictions enact changes like those put in place by the Legislature and then-Gov. John Engler in 2000, Lott said.
In Michigan and elsewhere (liberal permitting is the rule in about 40 states), those who seek CCW permits, get training and pay licensing fees tend to be "the kind of people who don't break laws," Lott said.
Nationally, the rate of CCW permits being revoked is very low, he said. State Police reports in Michigan indicate that 2,178 permits have been revoked or suspended since 2001, slightly more than 1% of those issued.
Another State Police report found that 175 Michigan permit holders were convicted of a crime, most of them nonviolent, requiring revocation or suspension of their permits between July 1, 2005, and June 30, 2006.
But even if more armed citizens have not wreaked havoc, some critics of Michigan's law chafe at how it was passed: against stiff opposition in a lame duck legislative session and attached to an appropriation that nullified efforts at repeal by referendum. . . .

I liked the title of the piece.

Labels: ,


Some businesses in St. Louis let employees carry concealed handguns on the job

Other businesses that send workers on the road with cash have policies that differ from Domino's.

Deferring to state firearm law, the St. Louis Taxi Commission leaves the decision about allowing drivers to arm themselves up to the individual cab companies.

St. Louis' Harris Cab Company, in turn, leaves the decision to the discretion of the drivers.

"We don't prevent drivers (from carrying) because we want them to be safe," said manager Shermand Palmer. . . .

It is interesting that cab drivers, who I assume face more of a risk than pizza delivery men, let their employees carry guns. When it matters the most, they let their employees do it. Pizza delivery men are not as great of a target because they carry such limited money on them.

Thanks very much to AJ Troglio for this link and the other links on this story.

Labels: ,


Re-opening the debate to arm pilots?

Some are apparently questioning whether pilots should be armed. My friend Tracy Price looks at the arguments in a new argument.

In a recent interview, Sen. Bill Nelson of Florida stated: "The need for guns in the cockpit is just nearly not [sic] as acute as it once was. There are all kind [sic] of screening systems, there is now the reinforced cockpit door, there are air marshals, we now have a lots of checks and balances." Hearing this, some might ask, "Do airline pilots still need to be armed?" The answer is, "Absolutely — now more than ever."

Consider this: Arming pilots is not a new idea. In fact, airline pilots flew armed in large numbers from the dawn of commercial aviation to 1987 with no record of incident. When the federal government disarmed pilots in 1987, many pilots predicted cockpit takeover attempts — including the late Captain Victor Saracini, who, in horrible irony, was the captain of United flight 175 on September 11, 2001 when his Boeing 767 was hijacked and crashed into the South Tower of the World Trade Center. It was the disarming of pilots in 1987 that inevitably led to the September 11 cockpit takeovers. . . .

Labels: ,


"Armed customer thwarts grocery robbery"

From the Indianapolis Star today.

Armed customer thwarts grocery robbery - Indianapolis Star

By Vic Ryckaert
January 2, 2008

A 51-year-old man stopped a masked man from robbing a Southside grocery store and held him at gunpoint until police arrived.

Charlie Merrell was in checkout line at Bucks IGA Supermarket, 3015 S. Meridian St., when a masked man jumped a nearby counter and held a gun on a store employee at 5:17 p.m. Monday, according to a police report made public today.

While the suspect was demanding cash from the workers, the police report states that Merrell pulled his own handgun, pointed it at the robber and ordered him to put down his weapon.

When the suspect hesitated, Merrell racked the slide on his gun to load a round in the chamber, Officer Jason Bockting wrote in the report.

The suspect placed his gun and a bag of cash on the counter, dropping some of the money, police said. The suspect removed his mask and lay on the floor. Merrell held the suspect at gunpoint until officers arrived and took him away in handcuffs.

Merrell had a valid permit to carry the handgun, police said. . Police recovered an unloaded .380-caliber handgun from the suspect and $779 in cash, according to the report. Dwain Smith, 19, was arrested on initial charges of robbery, criminal confinement, pointing a firearm, battery and carrying a handgun without a license. . . .

Thanks very much to Darren Cooper and Scott Davis for sending me this link.

Labels: ,

"Pizza deliveryman who shot robber had gun permit"

A Domino’s pizza deliveryman who shot and killed a would-be robber in Pagedale has a valid permit to carry a weapon and appears to have acted in self-defense, according to St. Louis County police.

UPDATE: This is disappointingly true:

The pizza delivery driver who fatally shot a robber last week could have faced discipline over the incident had he not resigned, a Domino's spokesman said Wednesday.

Although the driver was being praised by bloggers with comments such as "Score one for the good guys," many corporations, like Domino's, prohibit armed employees. . . .

I assume that at least part of this due to expectations of liability. This in turn effects insurance rules. If the legal set up were changed, I think that many firms would start to let employees carry guns.

Labels: ,


Push in Texas to Repeal Gun Free Zones for Colleges

For a discussion of the current push in Texas see here.

Thanks to Scott Davis for this link.

Labels: ,

65 Year Old Concealed Handgun Permit holder Stops 5 Armed Robbers

Gun-packing man, 65, fights off 5 thugs


ORLANDO, Fla. -- A Central Florida man who collects cash for parking at a church fought off five armed men who had ambushed him and demanded cash.

The 65-year-old victim, who did not want to be identified, said he was collecting cash in the Parramore area before an Orlando Magic basketball game when someone put a gun to his head.

He noticed that that he was surrounded by four other men as well.

The man said he pretended to reach into his jacket for cash but instead pulled out his hidden gun and opened fire.

The men fled during the shooting and it was not known if any of them were hit by bullets.

The victim said he had a permit for the concealed weapon.

He said he has been a victim of crime before.

"A couple of years ago, eight teens attacked me with a pipe trying to rob me," the man said.

Labels: ,


Permit holder kills intruder in his house

Convicted Criminal Arrested When Trying to Get Concealed Handgun Permit

Permit Holder Pizza Delivery man kills robber


Permit holder stops road-rage attack

Permit Rate in Florida has Soared Since 9/11

TAMPA - A skyrocketing number of applications for concealed weapons licenses has hindered the state agency that screens people for the documents from, at times, suspending or revoking the permits in a timely manner, according to a state audit released this week.

The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services says the number of applications for the licenses has risen 30 percent to 50 percent since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, but the agency's staff has not increased in pace with the "incredible workload," agency spokesman Terence McElroy said. . . .

McElroy said Thursday shortcomings have been addressed with updated computer systems and staff retraining. "There's no suggestion in this audit that people are getting concealed weapons permits that shouldn't be," he said. . . .



"Nebraska may consider assault weapons ban"

Well, here is one fall out of the recent mall attack in Nebraska: "Nebraska may consider assault weapons ban"

Labels: , ,


State Laws on Openly Carrying A Gun

For those interested in the interactive version of this state map of open carry laws see this link. This site has a lot of interesting information, though the only additional information that I would like is on when the different state laws have changed.

Labels: ,


"Colorado church hero "security guard" was volunteer church member with carry permit"

(CNSNews.com) - Many people are expressing relief that a volunteer security guard used her own gun to stop a man on a shooting spree Sunday. "She probably saved over 100 lives," the Brady Boyd, the pastor of the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, said on Monday. The female guard, a church member dressed in plain clothes, killed the gunman after he opened fire at a mega-church in Colorado Springs. Boyd said she "rushed toward the attacker and took him down in the hallway" as he entered the building. The shooting erupted around 1 p.m., at the end of a service, when 7,000 people were either inside the New Life Church or just leaving. "He was just walking and shooting," the Denver Post quoted one witness as saying. The gunman, still unidentified, shot at least five people, killing two teenage sisters, the pastor said. The girls were 16 and 18 years old. Their father, also shot, is listed in father condition. The gunman is believed to be the same young man who shot and killed two people earlier the same day at a missionary training center in suburban Denver. In that case, the gunman opened fire after he was refused permission to spend the night at the missionary center. The gunman was described as skinny, in his 20s, about 6 feet tall and dressed in black, police said. KUSA-TV reported that the gunman was wearing a "tactical helmet and body armor." The church's pastor said the New Life Church "prepared in advance" for a possible attack, after hearing about the shooting at the missionary training center.

This woman was really just a private CCW holder who asked the minister to carry a concealed handgun at the services. Apparently, there were others who also were allowed to carry their concealed handguns also at the church.

I had posted on this yesterday, but I must thank Andrew Rothman for finally providing me a link to this.



Open Carry at the University of Utah?

The U and gun rights activists appear to be headed for another legal clash.

The debate: whether or not concealed weapons permit holders can openly display their firearms on campus.

Students and staff with permits have been allowed to carry guns on campus since last fall when the Utah State Supreme Court struck down the U's gun ban. After battling the state for nearly five years, administrators said they were happy to put the issue behind them when they dropped a federal lawsuit against the state last spring. . . .

While I understand the push for this from a desire to get people to accept gun ownership, the benefits regarding stopping multiple victim public shootings are much bigger for concealed carry because the criminals won't know until they attack which potential victims will be able to fight back.

Labels: , ,


More Women Packing Concealed Handguns in Michigan

Friday, November 30, 2007
More women pack heat
Safety fears spark jump in concealed weapons permits
Darren A. Nichols and Iveory Perkins / The Detroit News

. . . . They fell for years among women as well, but are rising again. Women may set a record for statewide applications this year, and they're flooding ranges and prompting Wayne County and other training facilities to host "women-only" permit classes.

Bunch and other women remain the vast majority of the state's 150,000 who legally carry concealed weapons, but their ranks have jumped from 10 percent of permit-holders in 2001 to 17 percent this year. Women are on pace to receive nearly 4,100 permits this year, close to double that in 2003. . . . .

Michigan's rate for women seems low compared to other states, but it is rising quickly. It would be interesting to try to explain why there is the difference across states in the rate that women carry concealed handguns.



Permits in Utah

This is kind of interesting that "1,000 non-resident citizens of foreign countries, from the Congo to Switzerland" have concealed handgun permits.

Nearly half of the 28,000 permits issued this year will go to out-of-state residents. Utah has issued more than 100,000 concealed gun permits since the program began in the early 1990s.

Ed McConkie, chief of the Bureau of Criminal Identification told the Law Enforcement and Criminal Justice Committee Wednesday some rule changes, including one that allows the BCI to keep the fees it collects for concealed weapon permits, has allowed the agency to catch up on its backlog of background checks.

Under law, the agency must issue the permit within 60 days. Before the new rule took effect, the waiting period had reached 120 days, violating the statute. Now it's 49 days for Utah applicants and 53 days for out-of-state residents. . . . .

Through reciprocity agreements, Utah's permit allows holders to carry a concealed gun in 34 states. More than 1,000 non-resident citizens of foreign countries, from the Congo to Switzerland, have been issued Utah permits.

Labels: ,


New Rules for Learning Names of Concealed Handgun Permit Holders In Ohio


Concealed Handgun Permit holders Stop Armed Robbers in Orlando, Florida


Texas Tech Students help push for ending gun free zones on campus

This is a surprise at Texas Tech? Hardly, but it is nice to see even more attention for Students for Concealed Carry. I have lost count how many stories that I have linked to on all this, but it is nice to see them getting as much attention as they did.

Some Texas Tech University students who believe concealed hand guns should be allowed on campus with proper certification are wearing empty holsters this week to protest gun-control policies.

Hoping to raise awareness about the issues surrounding the prohibition of licensed firearm possession on college campuses, students attending approximately 110 college institutions nationwide organized a protest at their respective campuses.

An estimated 6,000 members of Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, the national organization of discontented gun owners, will symbolize their plight all week by donning empty holsters.

The group, however, is not advocating just any possession of weapons, he said. It designed the protests specifically to promote licensed and responsible carrying of handguns throughout all parts of campuses. . . . .

Labels: ,


Fred Thompson on Gun-Free Zones

Generally, I thought that Senator Fred Thompson gave a very good interview on Meet the Press this morning, though I was somewhat disappointed with his answer on gun free zones. I get the impression that Thompson believes that individual property owners have the right to decide to use their own property, but I would have liked to see Thompson asked to differentiate public and private universities. I understand and support his desire that people should have the choice what rules to adopt when they own the property, but I would have been nice if he had clearly reiterated what was stated in the quote that Russert read. Possibly Thompson thought the quote was enough, but I would have appreciated something more supportive in this interview.

MR. RUSSERT: And we are back. Senator Fred Thompson is our guest.

Virginia Tech, last April 32 killed, terrible tragedy. You had a radio report back at that time, and I’d like to share it with you and our viewers. “Virginia Tech,” the “administrators overrode Virginia state law and threatened to expel or fire anybody who brings a weapon,” on the “campus. Many other universities have been swayed by an anti-gun, anti-self defense ideology. Whenever I’ve seen one of those ‘Gun-free zone’ signs, especially outside of a school filled with our youngest and most vulnerable citizens, I’ve always wondered exactly who these signs are directed at.”

My sense in reading that is that you would be in favor of licensed citizens of Virginia, students, including students, to carry concealed weapons on a college campus.

MR. THOMPSON: It would have to be consistent with campus rules. I don’t think that all students need to be carrying weapons on the school campus. What I would, I would feel more comfortable with, if a child of mine was on campus, when I read about these people, 30 people or so being lined up and systematically killed without anybody apparently around to do anything about it, I think some, some thought really needs to be given as to who should be properly qualified and permitted and, and armed on campuses and other places where large people gather. But...

MR. RUSSERT: But you would, you would allow a campus to bar their students from carrying concealed weapons?

MR. THOMPSON: Yeah, it, it would have to be consistent with state law and, and, and school rules. And different schools would have, you know, the, the freedom to, to have their own rules as, as, as they see fit. . . . .

The take at the National Review Online was pretty positive:

Having just watched it on the DVR, I thought it was a very, very solid performance. Ground rule double.

Labels: ,

Students for Concealed Carry Versus Gun Control Groups on Campus

Still, more of the highly symbolic demonstrations have taken place in towns or cities than on college campuses, and that’s partially an indication of who’s doing the organizing. The protest at UNC, for example, was co-sponsored by the local Million Mom March chapter and North Carolinians Against Gun Violence (NCGV) but no student groups.

At the University of Virginia, though, students organized a lie-in on Oct. 16 that coincided with the six-month anniversary of the Virginia Tech shootings. Spangler has also tapped Facebook to try to recruit more organizers in college; her group currently has 218 members, not an insignificant number but far less than that of many advocacy organizations on the site — including Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, which has 7,542 members. . . . .

Well, 218 to 7,542 is progress, though I suspect that we have a ways to go still.

Labels: ,


An Analysis of Concealed Permit Holders in Tennessee

WBIR TV in Knoxville, Tennessee has a detailed discussion of permit holders' characteristics. It shows a county by county breakdown of the 177,881 permit holders in the state. They find that while permit holders tend to be white males living in the suburbs, "there was no clear pattern" with income.

The actual TV report can be seen here. One county apparently had 11 percent of people with permits. The survey that they are referring to about the US having the highest gun ownership rate in the world is wrong. The study paid for by George Soros confused total guns with gun ownership rate.

Thanks to SayUncle and Clint Kritzer.

Labels: ,


The Brady Campaign gets some examples of bad uses of guns wrong

The Brady Campaign will sometime float examples of people using concealed handguns improperly. It involves only a small number of examples. Howard Nemerov took some time to look throughf the Brady Campaign examples and shows how they get some of even the few they point to wrong.


Roberts and Hanson Rounds II and III

Unfortunately, Russell Roberts seems unwilling to respond to my previous comments on his postings on empirical work. If he wants to talk about the weaknesses of empirical work, be specific. If he wants to talk about empirical work free from political biases, have the guts to point to specific examples where this bias exists and say how he would do it differently. What is this work missing. He cites Ed Leamer (a former professor of mine), but he ignores that the work that he does discuss does follow Leamer's recommendations. So then what would Roberts do differently?

No Roberts tries to impose the obiligation on those who might know the empirical literature better.

Robin is taking my observation about pragmatism and applying it to handguns. I didn't mean to. I brought up pragmatism in order to highlight the general dangers of excessive faith in reason. Assuming that econometric analysis always trumps an anecdote is an example of the potential dangers of econometric analysis. Yes, relying on anecdotes is lousy science. But lousy econometrics is lousy science, too. What my podcast with Ayres made me realize is that lousy econometrics may be the norm rather than the exception.

Such cynicism can come cheap. It also seems to leave us with anecdotes. Well, there's also common sense, intuition and general lessons gleaned from experience and empirical work that is less prone to manipulation.

So again, my question to my better-read colleagues in the profession--give me an example of a statistical analysis that relies on instrumental variables, for example, that is done well enough, that is so iron-clad, that it can reverse the prior beliefs of a skeptic.

OK, let me give Russell a response. These points and other similar ones are in my book Freedomnomics. The second point below is also in More Guns, Less Crime. I realize that Russell hasn't had time to read either book, but before he comments more on these types of empirical work, he might benefit from reading them.

1) I don't put a huge amount of weight often on instrumental variables, but let me give one example from my own work on giving women the right to vote. The instrument there is whether states voluntarily or were forced to give women the right to vote. We found that both types of states experienced a similar increase in government growth after women were given the right to vote. If it was simply increased liberalism by men that caused both suffrage for women and government growth, you should see that in states that reached a critical mass to voluntarily give women the right to vote, but not in others where states were forced to given them a vote.

2) Regarding correlation and causation that is precisely why some research try to provide many qualitatively different empirical tests. For example, with right-to-carry laws: 1) violent crime falls, 2) the size of the drop increases over time the longer the law is in effect because more permits are issued, 3) there are differences between violent crimes where a criminal comes in contact with a victim who might be able to defend herself and a property crime where there is no contact (violent crimes fall relative to property crimes), 4) there are differences between different types of violent crimes (e.g., between murder generally and multiple victim public shootings because the probability that someone will be able to defend themselves with multiple victim public shootings is much higher than the case where there is only one or two victims present), 5) a comparison between adjacent counties on opposite sides of a state border, and 6) differential benefits across different types of victims.

Russell, try to come up with an alternative explanation for these different findings.

As a general comment, I am disappointed how vague Roberts' discussion is and how filled it is with platitudes.

Finally, Robin Hanson summarizes where Russell might be coming out on all this: "Russ finally answers as I'd originally expected: he relies on simpler clearer data and theory. " I think that there is a lot of regression and empirical work that uses very simple approaches (see the above reference to women voting or I would even argue many issues involving concealed handguns such as permit holders being extremely law-abiding and not posing a risk by themselves), So Russell, what do you have to say to that? In addition, Russell, I don't think that Ayres conceded anything to you on Friedman's Monetary History.

Labels: , ,


Russell Roberts and Robin Hanson on the value of Empirical work

I don't know how one figures out what is right without looking at data. Introspection only gets one so far and introspection is really built to some extent on our relationship with data (at least broadly defined) at some point in our lives. I agree that a healthy sense of skepticism is necessary regarding empirical work, but Russell Robert's recent discussions went beyond that.

Russell Roberts makes a pretty disappointing claim here that empirical data really only demonstrates the researcher's prior beliefs. Roberts then cites work on concealed handguns and lojack devices as evidence for his claim. Even more interesting, he references Ed Leamer (a former professor of mine) whose work has largely been set up to take out some of researcher's biases from the research that they present. Roberts fails to note that in More Guns, Less Crime I used Leamer's approach for both the sensitivity of specifications as well as bounding measurement error. As an aside, I also think that it is important that people share their data as an important check on the quality of research, even if others do not behave similarly.

Unfortunately, Russell isn't familiar with much of the debate over concealed handgun laws. I think that the refereed academic research on concealed handgun laws by economists has had an impact. For example, how many refereed academic papers by economists or criminologists claim that right-to-carry laws have statistically significantly raised accidental shootings, suicides, or violent crime rates? I know of none. If Roberts can point to one paper, he should do so. Even most of the relatively few papers that claim to find no statistically significant effects have most of their results showing a benefit from right-to-carry laws. For example, Black and Nagin's 1998 piece in the JLS shows that even after they elminate about 87 percent of the sample (dropping out counties with fewer than 100,000 people as well as Florida from the sample), there are still two violent crime rate categories (as well as overall violent crime that they don't report) that show a statistically drop after right-to-carry laws are adopted. Mark Duggan's paper in the JPE is a similar example. Once the admitted typos in his Table 11 are fixed, most of the estimates show a statistically significant drop in violent crime. All but one of the results for murder show a statistically significant drop. There is only one of the 30 coefficient estimates that show a statistically significant increase, and even that is because he is looking at just the before and after averages and not trends.

My question is this: before this research, how many academics would have believed that at least some refereed research would show that right to carry laws did not increase accidents, suicides, or violent crime rates? I think that most would believe that some would find these results.

Robin Hanson gets to the central question: What Roberts would use to make decisions if he isn't going to use empirical work?

Try saying this out loud: "Neither the data nor theory I've come across much explain why I believe this conclusion, relative to my random whim, inherited personality, and early culture and indoctrination, and I have no good reasons to think these are much correlated with truth."

Russell tries to respond here. In particular he states:

Where does that leave us? Economists should do empirical work, empirical work that is insulated as much as possible from confirmation bias, empirical work that isn’t subject to the malfeasance of running thousands of regressions until the data screams Uncle. And empirical work where it’s reasonable to assume that all the relevant variables have been controlled for. And let’s not pretend we’re doing science when we’re not.

Anyone can make such broad claims and many frequently have. Be specific. You have gotten into a debate over particular laws. What is it that you think should have been done regarding right-to-carry laws? What should have been controlled for that wasn't? What combination of control variables should have analyzed that wasn't?

Footnote: In Duggan's main estimates in the above discussed paper, it is interesting that the magazine he uses in much of his paper, Guns & Ammo, is the only one that shows the effect that he claims and that is because the magazine bought many copies of its issues in increasing crime areas (places where it thought there was a demand for defensive guns) when sales failed to meet promises to advertisers.

Labels: ,


Some News Coverage for Students for Concealed Carry

Here are just a few of the many news stories that Students for Concealed Carry had written on them. Good for them.

(CBS 11 News) DALLAS A nationwide effort is underway to give college students the right to carry concealed guns on campus. Those who support the idea are being asked to wear empty gun holsters around their waist.

"At Virginia Tech, if someone would have stopped that student from going into those classrooms, or from shooting the very first kid, we could have stopped a lot of murders," said Michele Connole.

Connole is a recent University of North Texas graduate who is still active with her alma mater. In 2004, she was pushing for the rights of students to carry concealed weapons. She had little sympathy back then, but today support is growing.

"As we saw with Virginia Tech, laws that prohibit people from carrying weapons on campus didn't really stop the shooter," said Shawn Griffiths, a member of the UNT Young Conservatives of Texas. . . . .

Here is a negative editorial:

Students may have noticed some of their peers wearing empty gun holsters around campus. While this choice in attire may seem bizarre, these students are participating in a weeklong national peaceful protest of state and university policies banning concealed firearms from campus.

We unequivocally support these protesters' right to express their opinions peacefully, and we are glad to see students exercising their First Amendment rights. But UK should not change its firearms policy.

UK is currently a deadly-weapons-free campus, a fact that UK's Students for Concealed Carry on Campus hopes to change. Students at Western Kentucky University, Eastern Kentucky University and Northern Kentucky University, along with local gun shops, are also participating in this event, according to a Kernel article on Tuesday.

The protesters are just trying to raise awareness of the policy prohibiting concealed weapons on campus, said Dave Burnett, a member of SCCC at UK, in the article. . . . .

The following artcle has a small mistake about the number of people killed at Virginia Tech (32 not 33), but it is still useful. (I blame this mistake on the media usually including the killer's death in their numbers so it isn't surprising that some people would think that all 33 were killed.)

A small number of Ohio State students have been wearing empty gun holsters around their waists this week in protest of a campus law prohibiting the possession of firearms on college campuses.

This protest is just a small part of a larger national movement - Students for Concealed Carry on Campus - of more than 5,000 people started by a student at the University of Cincinnati who used Facebook to rally support for the issue.

Evan Peck, a senior in sociology and math, is one of the OSU students participating in the protest and lent holsters to students who did not have one of their own. . . . .

This next article is more than a little biased. I know more than several students at just one school, let alone

Cleveland -- Several college students statewide are coming to campus wearing empty gun holsters.
They are protesting the prohibition of firearms on college campuses.

The group, Students for Concealed Carry on Campus, is organizing the protest on more then 100 Ohio campuses this week.

Cleveland State University Junior Joe Rodriguez is attracting attention around campus with his holster.

Rodriguez says gun free zones are an invitation to those who would do harm to a disarmed student population.

The Virginia Tech ambush was just one example Rodriguez says where a student with a license to carry a concealed weapon, could have saved lives. . . . .

Labels: ,


Miami Police Arrest a Report Who is Carrying a Concealed Gun

MIAMI (AP) — A television reporter investigating a story on school violence was arrested after carrying a loaded gun onto school property, authorities said.

Jeffrey Weinsier of WPLG-TV, an ABC network affiliate, was taken into custody Tuesday at Miami Central High School after ignoring several warnings not to walk on school property, Miami-Dade schools police said.

"Kindly go across the street now," an officer is shown telling Weinsier during the videotaped encounter.

"I'm not," Weinsier replied. The officer then handcuffed him.

Weinsier, 40, was charged with possession of a firearm on school grounds, trespassing on school property with a weapon and resisting officers without violence.

The photographer working with Weinsier, Frank Debesa, said afterward: "Jeff did have a gun on him."

Weinsier began carrying a gun after he received death threats stemming from a series he did about unsanitary conditions at restaurants, according to the station. . . . .



Georgia Concealed Carry Holder Stops What Would Have Been A Multiple Victim Shooting


Concealed Handgun Permit holders Extremely Law-abiding in Florida


Harassing Concealed Handgun Permit Holders in Connecticut

This guy's ability to do his job is effected by these hassles over his concealed carry permit.

TJames Goldberg was never in trouble with the law, never even had a traffic ticket. And he had no difficulty obtaining a gun permit to carry a pistol to his job as night manager of a liquor store for protection.

So when Glastonbury police seized Goldberg's gun and revoked his permit - following his arrest on charges of breach of peace June 21 at Chili's restaurant after an employee complained about seeing the gun under his T-shirt - friends and family, even the Wethersfield police chief who signed off on the gun permit, figured it was a misunderstanding that would be quickly corrected.

The misdemeanor charge was dismissed about a month later . . . .

Thanks to Bruce Mills for sending this to me.



I wish them good luck with this, but . . .

I agree completely with the end goal that these students have, but I just hope that they are as organized as they seem to think that they are.

On April 16, 2007, twenty-seven students and five faculty members at Virginia Tech lost their lives to a madman who possessed one distinct advantage over his victims—He wasn’t concerned with following the rules. Undeterred by Virginia Tech’s status as a “gun free zone,” this mentally unstable individual carried two handguns onto the university campus and indiscriminately opened fire.

During the week of October 22-26, 2007, college students throughout America will attend classes wearing empty holsters, in protest of state laws and campus policies that stack the odds in favor of armed killers by disarming law abiding citizens who are licensed to carry concealed handguns virtually everywhere else. . . . .

Labels: ,


Why off-duty police (and their wives) should carry concealed handguns


Utah slightly tightens permitting rules

Surge in Florida Concealed Carry Permits


Wisconsin Judge Lets Delivery Man Carry Concealed Handgun for Job

A permit process would obviously be a lot less costly way of letting those who are able to carry a concealed handgun be able to do so.

A Milwaukee County judge found the concealed-weapon prosecution of a pizza driver who shot two would-be robbers in seven months unconstitutional Monday.

The ruling by Circuit Judge Daniel A. Noonan means Andres Vegas won't face criminal charges in the non-fatal shootings. Prosecutors had filed a misdemeanor count of carrying a concealed weapon after the second shooting, in January, and said Vegas had been warned after a July 2006 shooting not to carry a concealed gun while driving for his job.

However, Noonan agreed with defense attorneys' contention that Vegas needed the gun to protect himself in his chosen work, citing state Supreme Court decisions that found justified exceptions to the state's concealed-carry ban.

"Given Vegas's experience, he has a need for a gun at a moment's notice," Noonan writes in his decision. "Enclosing and unloading the weapon is not a reasonable alternative to secure and protect his safety. Plus, Vegas while delivering pizzas enters and exits his car constantly; it would be unreasonable for him every time that he enters his car to require him to unload it and place it in a case and then reverse the process every time he exits. This defeats the purpose of having the gun for security and protection. . . . .

Thanks to L A Stich for sending me this link.

Labels: , ,


Jodie Foster's New Movie "The Brave One" Looks to be Very Disappointing

"The Brave One" looked like a revival of the old "Death Wish" movies, or at least that was what I thought at first. Warner Brothers describes the movie as follows:

The first time she shoots someone, it is kill or be killed. The second time is also in self-defense . . . or did she make a choice not to take herself out of harm's way? The fear that once paralyzed her has been replaced by something else . . .

I have posted positive notes on this movie earlier, but this summary and Jodie Foster's discussion here are very disappointing:

''Here's my commentary: I don't believe that any gun should be in the hand of a thinking, feeling, breathing human being. Americans are by nature filled with rage-slash-fear. And guns are a huge part of our culture. I know I'm crazy because I'm only supposed to say that in Europe. But violence corrupts absolutely. By the end of this, her transformation is complete. ''F--- all of you, now I'm just going to kill people with my bare hands.''' . . .

Does this mean that Switzerland isn't part of Europe? In any case, the synopsis of the movie stating she "has been replaced by something else" with Foster's own views is not very promising. It appears to give this movie a decidedly anti-self defense twist.

Well, at least some of the recent reviews have picked up on this heavily anti-self defense sentiment that seems apparent in the movie:

an impeccable dissection of gun control, as well as a wicked mockery of NRA mentality. . . .

Labels: , , , ,


Concealed Handgun Permits in Michigan

Earlier today I talked to a reporter from the Detroit Free Press, Dawson Bell, and he indicated that there are 140,000 permit holders in the state as of a month ago.

Labels: ,

West Virginia has 82,000 Permits


Concealed Handgun Permits Fall Dramatically in New York City


New Op-ed: More Guns, Not Less, Would Prevent Shooting Massacres


Will shooting in Missouri Church get Churches to reconsider Concealed Handgun Ban?

I found it interesting that the left-leaning Daily Kos seriously discussed the issue of gun free zones:

The fatal shooting of three people in a Missouri church on Sunday promises to renew the debate over concealed weapons laws.

Under the state's "conceal and carry" law enacted in 2003, Show Me State residents can bring firearms into places of worship (among other places), provided they get permission from their pastors. Whether the gunman or any of the assembled in the First Congregational Church in Neosho had received the blessing to pack heat in a house of God remains to be seen.

Among Missouri's Catholic churches, at least, such permission is unlikely. In the wake of the passage of the conceal and carry law, the Missouri Catholic Conference prescribed guidelines for churches in the state. Among its recommendations that each church should distribute a written policy to all employees and parishioners, as well as post a sign of at least 11 inches by 14 inches announcing that all weapons are prohibited within. . . .

Labels: ,


Debate on letting guns on college campuses

A C-SPAN Washington Journal debate between a student at George Mason University, Andrew Dysart, and Paul Helmke from the Brady Campaign can be seen here.

This morning during the 6 AM hour I debated Paul Helmke on WTOP radio.

Labels: ,


Most of the victims at Virginia Tech were over 21 years of age

Robert Tims writes me that "19 [of the victims at Virginia Tech this spring] were 21 yrs old or older." He provides five sources: here, here, here, here, and here.

Robert concludes by noting that "It is very significant to me that, if they had been allowed to carry on campus, there certainly could have been an individual who was responsible enough to insure their own and others safety."


More on Students Carrying Guns on Campus

The CNN program here reports that over 500 students at the University of Utah have concealed carry permits. I assume that there are probably about 30,000 students on campus. If that number is correct, that is only about 1.6 percent of the students being able to carry a gun. It would be nice to get that number somewhat higher. Still, 500 on students on campus must mean that there will often be multiple people around the school who are able to stop an attack. I would be willing to bet that there won't be any significant multiple victim public shootings at that university.

One professor, Barbara Nash, who is interviewed claimed that the idea that more guns would mean a safer place is a "stupid" idea. It would have been nice if the professor could have pointed to some evidence that students with a concealed handgun permit posed a danger. On the other hand, another professor in the Business School, Randall Boyle, said he actually felt safer now that some students in the class legally have concealed handguns.



George Mason Students Come Out for Carrying Concealed Handguns

A debate between a couple of students on a local TV show can be seen here. Andrew Dysart was the student from GMU who supported students being able to carry concealed handguns. The main answer that I would have given to the question about what might happen with students carrying concealed handguns is that where has there been a problem with people over age 21 who behave improperly with concealed handguns.


Some Los Angeles Police Discuss Letting Citizens Carrying Concealed Handguns

There is an interesting TV program segment on what police in Los Angeles felt about right-to-carry laws can be found here. It seems like right below the very top that there is a lot of support even in Los Angeles for concealed handguns. I have no idea how representative these interviews are, but it was interesting.

Labels: ,


Students at Virginia Colleges Push to carry concealed handguns


Example where discretionary concealed handgun permits may have been given out as political favors


Concealed Handgun Permit Holder Stops Murderer at Seattle Party


Some recognition for a permit holder who helped stop a bank robbery

A man who helped thwart an armed robber's escape from a Bessemer bank in May died this morning in a bulldozer accident in western Jefferson County.

Christopher Lynn Chappell, 41, was accidentally killed at 8:15 a.m. by the bulldozer he was operating, said Jefferson County Sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Randy Christian.

It is believed he became entangled in the track of the bulldozer and was run over while working alone. Deputies and the Concord Fire Department responded, but Chappell was pronounced dead on the scene.
On May 14, Chappell was a customer at the Wachovia Bank on Ninth Avenue in Bessemer, when a gunman opened fire, killing bank employees Eva Hudson and Sheila McWaine Prevo. Two other bank employees, Anita Gordon and LaToya Freeman, were wounded.

Chappell, who was approaching the bank and heard the gunfire, got his gun from his vehicle and confronted the gunman as he was leaving, forcing him back inside and giving law officers time to respond..

Thanks very much to James Roberts for sending this to me.

Labels: ,


Problems with discretionary concealed handgun permits

SaysUncle in his piece on "Like you and me, only better" notes how not everyone is treated equally when there is discretion in granting permits. Note my book doesn't say that permits increased in New York City, just that it was higher than most people might think.


Coverage of Concealed Carry in Philadelphia Inquirer

A month ago, with her frustration mounting over all the guns and killing, she shredded her own gun permit. She won't seek to renew it, she says. . . .

This woman is understandably upset about what appears to be gang shootings in Philadelphia. But it would have been nice if the Philadelphia Inquirer could have had some discussion of whether this response by a law-abiding citizen to disarm herself made any sense.



Army veteran stops carjacking


Concealed Carry Increasing in one of my Favorite Towns

Recent violence in Lubbock appears to have sparked a larger interest in concealed handgun licenses, so NewsChannel 11 taking a closer look into what it takes to receive one of those permits.

"The object of carrying a weapon is to prevent things from happening," Beverly Ellis, owner of Gun Shak in southwest Lubbock County said.

Ellis is also a concealed handgun license instructor. Before you can get a conceal-carry license from the Department of Public Safety, you'll have to spend hours of class time with her, or at least another instructor like Ellis, and it appears more people in Lubbock are up to the challenge.

"In the last two or three months there's been a much greater interest. With all the things that have been going on, they just feel like they want to be prepared, in the event that something happens," Ellis said.

"I am safer," Paul Bean said. . . .

You can tell it is Texas (at least outside of Houston and Austin) when not only is the article quite positive about right-to-carry, but also the news article provides a link on how people can get permits.

Labels: ,


Ohio Newspaper printing names of Concealed Handugn Permit Holders

You can see a piece on this issue here. The point is that the benefit from right-to-carry laws is that the criminals don't know who might be carrying a gun. By publishing the names of permit holders, the safety of non-permit holders is put at risk.

Labels: ,


Texas Legislator doesn't practice what he preaches


Man with concealed handgun permit comes to wife's rescue

A follow up to the piece that I posted about the concealed handgun permit holder who stopped a robbery in Fort Worth can be found here.

The Dallas Morning News writes:

Fort Worth police praise man who shot at Albertsons robber
FW: Suspect in crime at store left at hospital; 2 others sought in case
12:00 AM CDT on Thursday, July 5, 2007

By MARISSA ALANIS / The Dallas Morning News
A Fort Worth man who only wanted to protect his wife stuck in an Albertsons store during a robbery is being hailed for his heroics by police.

The retired man may have shot one of the robbers early Wednesday at the store in the 3500 block of Sycamore School Road.

Three men armed with guns robbed the store shortly after midnight and stole wallets and purses belonging to customers, said Lt. Dean Sullivan, a Fort Worth police spokesman.

The man, whom police didn't identify because he is a witness, saw two of the men walking around nervously before they entered the store. The witness said he called 911 when one of the men pulled out a gun and fired as he walked into the store.

About 20 seconds later, the witness's wife tried to call him from her cellphone inside the store. But he never got to talk to her.

"I just heard her saying, 'There is nothing in my purse,' " he recalled. "And there was a 'pow.' The phone went dead."

The man, who has a concealed handgun license, sprang into action. He walked into the store with his .45-caliber pistol under his shirt.

"I really thought I'd find her in the store shopping and get her out the back door," he said. "That was my intention. ... I had no intention of confronting these armed bandits."

But in the store, one of the robbers pointed the gun at the man. The man then fired twice. The robber ran away, and it's unknown whether he returned fire, Lt. Sullivan said. Outside the store, the retired man fired again. . . . .

Read the entire piece.

Labels: ,


Concealed Handgun Permit Holder Stops Robbers in Texas, video included

FORT WORTH -- Police released surveillance video Friday that shows a witness shooting at two grocery store robbers.

The video shows two robbers entering Albertsons, 3525 Sycamore School Road, Tuesday night. Armed with semiautomatic weapons, they took wallets and purses from customers and employees, police said.

The witness, a 56-year-old Fort Worth man, then walks into the store with a cellphone to his ear. He walks out of camera range, then returns, firing his Beretta at the fleeing robbers.

The witness is licensed to carry a concealed weapon, police said. Blood found at the scene led officers to believe he wounded a robber.

A short time later, Ramsez Hall, 21, of Fort Worth, was dropped off at a south Fort Worth hospital with gunshot wounds to the buttocks and foot. He could face aggravated robbery charges, police said.

Thanks to Andrew B for the link.

Labels: ,


SayUncle points to another Newspaper publishing the names of concealed handgun permit holders

SayUncle points to another Newspaper publishing the names of concealed handgun permit holders here.