Another gun free zone: "1 Person Dead; Gunman on the Loose at Virginia Tech University"
All the public universities in Virginia have rules banning guns on campus.
BLACKSBURG, Va. — A gunman was loose on the Virginia Tech University campus in Blacksburg, Va., Monday, and officials were warning everyone to stay away from all building windows.
A state government official told The Associated Press said that at least one person was killed and another was injured in a shooting incident at the West Ambler Johnston residence hall early Monday morning. FOX News has not yet confirmed that report. . . .
UPDATE: Paul Huebl sent around a link confirming what I had already put up about Virginia Tech being a gun free zone.
Last spring a Virginia Tech student was disciplined for bringing a handgun to class, despite having a concealed handgun permit. Some gun owners questioned the university's authority, while the Virginia Association of Chiefs of Police came out against the presence of guns on campus.
In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities. . . .
UPDATE: Obviously, this has turned into a much more horrible situation than was originally reported. I will wait to post more until more is understood about what happened.
A state government official told The Associated Press said that at least one person was killed and another was injured in a shooting incident at the West Ambler Johnston residence hall early Monday morning. FOX News has not yet confirmed that report. . . .
UPDATE: Paul Huebl sent around a link confirming what I had already put up about Virginia Tech being a gun free zone.
In June, Tech's governing board approved a violence prevention policy reiterating its ban on students or employees carrying guns and prohibiting visitors from bringing them into campus facilities. . . .
UPDATE: Obviously, this has turned into a much more horrible situation than was originally reported. I will wait to post more until more is understood about what happened.
posted by John Lott at 10:54 AM
9 Comments:
Weren't laws in Oregon allowing concealed handguns in schools passed because of the Springfield shootings?
In VA it is perfectly legal for students and members of the public to carry a gun on a public college campus, with one exception - VCU.
However, all the public colleges have assumed that they have a super-constitutional authority to veto state law...and they all have some form of total prohibition of firearms except for campus police/security.
One guy at VT was expelled (I think) for carrying a gun, even though he was legally entitled to do so - he had a CHP.
Now dozens of students are dead, dozens more injured. If just one of these victims, or bystander, has a CHP, there should rightfully be a mammoth effort to sue VT into oblivion.
Their insolent, ignorant, immature attitude has now reached the end-game...innocent lives have been lost. VT are in part culpable for the tragedy, by violating state law and illegally denying people their right to self-preservation...and by extension the option to come to the aid of others.
I hope VT is found liable and we can begin to bring this (typically 'liberal') cretinous, nightmarish pantomime to a legislative end.
-dk
Perhaps over time the cure for this particular bit of liberal PC wrong-headedness lies with parents. We have a nine year old who definitely WILL NOT be going to a campus where conceal-carry is not allowed. Conceal-carry will be the litmus test for the choice of where she will pursue her education.
Parents are watching this tragedy unfold, and fear for the safety of one's progeny focusses the mind in a powerful way. Please keep educating the public on the futility of gun control, there are many new persuadables by virtue of today's masacre at Virginia Tech.
Kansas Concealed Carry makes Universities GUN FREE ZONES. This is yet another example of a gun free zone in which the criminal continue to violate knowing that they will not be opposed. Churches, schools, shopping malls each ones are targets when they are made no carry zones. Why do the politicans seem to believe that if they create a "GUN FREE ZONE" that the criminals will abide by that law? How many innocent victims will it take before society wakes up and realizes that gun laws only keep the guns out of the tax paying law abiding citizens and not the criminal element in our society???
Two questions:
1) How many people would die annually at Va. Tech if anyone could carry a gun on campus?
2) How many people would enroll at Va. Tech if anyone could carry a gun on campus?
The comments here are such nonsense.
The majority of the United States is a zone where CHPs are widely available. I would love to see some evidence showing a disparity in the rate crimes among Gun-Free zones and CHP areas.
Better yet, is the rate of gun crime any higher on campuses where CHPs are permissable versus those where Gun-Free Zone policies are in effect?
The solution to the gun problem is not more guns. It's less psychotics with access to guns.
In response to Devin, whose attitude appears to be that allowing guns to be legally carried on college campuses would lead to more bloodshed: How much more proof does one need now to show the failure of "gun-free", aka "victim empowerment" zones, than what happened at VT? As competent as campus police or other local law enforcment may have been, they cannot be everywhere at once. Nor do they have any duty to protect any specific individual, per several Federal court rulings. If you have read any of Dr. Lott's books (I have), he notes the deterrent effect of concealed weapons benefits even those who do not carry. Criminals are less likely to strike if they don't know if their "prey" is armed, and if the gun is concealed how can they tell? Obviously the VT murderer chose his target either knowing there would be no armed response, or at least not in time to prevent this tragedy from happening.
Regarding anonymous' comments, what you refer to as "gun-free" zones are more accurately "(legal) gun-free zones". Washington DC, NYC, Boston, and LA are all areas where it is impossible or nearly so to obtain a CCW/CHP, and where even purchasing a handgun is often severely restricted. As above, with everything else being equal, how would violent criminals in these major urban areas respond knowing they had a greater chance of being wounded or killed in the course of their "work"?
RE: Anonymous -
"...The comments here are such nonsense..."
Thanks for letting us know. We're all better off for your startling insight.
"...The majority of the United States is a zone where CHPs are widely available..."
True, but misleading. The majority of states are "shall issue" states, a few more are "may issue" (ie. discretionary), and only one or two are "no issue" (ie. prohibited).
Even though the "shall issue" policy is "widespread", CHP holders are very much a minority. Even so, the cumulative probability of encountering an armed civilian is such that mass shootings are rare-to-none. Guess where they *do* happen? "Gun Free Zones" stand up and take a bow!
"...I would love to see some evidence showing a disparity in the rate crimes among Gun-Free zones and CHP areas..."
Firstly, we're not talking about "crimes" in general, we're talking about violent crime, especially those involving criminal use of firearms.
To this end, even a cursory examination of statistics shows that "Gun Free Zones" are petri-dishes for mass shootings, and highly prohibitive areas (like DC) are violent, festering crime-holes.
"...Better yet, is the rate of gun crime any higher on campuses where CHPs are permissable versus those where Gun-Free Zone policies are in effect?..."
Kinda hard to tell, since pretty much *all* campuses are "Gun Free Zones". What we can point to are the few campuses that have decided that they will no longer stand in contempt of lawfully armed civilians...have these armed people become kill-krazy maniacs?
"...The solution to the gun problem is not more guns. It's less psychotics with access to guns..."
There is no 'gun problem'...only an sociopathy problem...both from the maniacs and the dimwits that legislate for our 'safety'.
Guns Save Lives
-dk
Second Amendment Again Under Attack
Gun control advocates and enemies of the Second Amendment are using the Virginia Tech slaughter to forward their heretofore closeted initiatives on removing firearms from the American people while public emotion is at a peak. Armed with slanted and left spun media coverage from NBC, CBS, MSNBC, PBS and CNN, they are launching a full court press to once again challenge our right to bear arms. Nightly News commentators are quick to say that Americans all over the Country are up in arms over tighter gun control giving it the spin to appear as some kind of national uprising, societal upheaval and public consensus. I challenge both the accuracy and veracity of that statement and assign it more to supposition and media manipulation than fact.
While the left and the anti gun lobby is having a virtual field day with politicizing this horrific and tragic event to their advantage, defenders of the Second Amendment fail to see the same opportunity by answering back with statistical facts that suggest owning a firearm of any kind is in fact, a very good right to have.
When a population is disarmed or their right to own a firearm is controlled so tightly as to make it almost possible to have a gun…that population and every honest law abiding taxpaying citizen becomes at risk. In addition: any people that is so disarmed becomes the servant of tyranny. Armed populations keep governments honest. Do you remember watching television during the beginning of the Iraqi war and noticing the tens of thousands of refugees clustered on boarders in refugee camps waiting to be removed to safety? There was something pretty obvious about that pitiful and helpless heap of broken humanity that most of the audience didn’t notice…none of them were armed…only their guards carried the SKS’s and AK 47’s with banana clips. Their government had succeeded in disarming them long before they arrived at their plight... Go figure…and remember the images.
Stronger controls on our honest, law abiding citizens right to bear arms does not control dishonest citizens (or criminally insane) right to bear arms. It only victimizes the innocent and upstanding citizens by leaving them helpless against criminals. Strange that every policeman I have talked to is for the right to bear arms. I like cops; they are my friends and protector. I have found that a good many people that don’t like cops like to fudge on the law. Cops like to keep them from fudging; it’s what we honest citizens pay them to do. But cops are stretched pretty thin and response times can vary. Department of Justice statistics reflect that it took between 11 minutes to an hour (on the average) in America for police to respond to violent crime 38% of the time. For household burglary it took 11 minutes to an hour 51.7% of the time. It only takes a few seconds for someone to kill a person unless the perpetrator permits one to call 911 and then wait out the response time factor. Police are not to blame for slow response times…they need manpower.
Ref: http://www.ojp.gov/bjs/abstract/cvus/response_time_to_victim584.htm
Gun control does not impact the criminal but it does however expose individuals and families to greater risk. Criminals are going to get guns whether they are available or not (for that matter it is very easy to make a gun) whereas law abiding citizens are not…this makes no sense at all and places the individual at the mercy of his assailant.… Bureau of Justice records show that of those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons, 70.2% repeat the offense when released (see below BOJ report). It seems clear to me that it is pretty easy for criminals to get guns legally or illegally. To take guns from honest, patriotic, taxpaying and voting citizens of this nation or to make it almost impossible to buy a gun in a state or for that matter the entire United States, would only open up the foreign import market to criminals. It is a big world and just because guns are not readily available in America does not mean they are completely inaccessible to people who need them to commit acts of crime…it only means it is criminal or impossibly difficult for us to own a gun…period. What gun control advocates and the liberal left want you to think is that it will end crime…I say gun ownership prevents crime. You have to think outside the box they are trying to put you in.
Let’s look at some other disturbing statistics from the Department of Justice and the California Department of Corrections in regard to convicted felons and parole. Staggering numbers of felons are released upon society annually. These figures cannot reflect the numbers of offenders that have not been apprehended or projected data on repeat offender potential :
Bureau of Justice:
• The number of adult men and women in the United States who were being supervised on probation or parole at the end of 2004 reach a new high of 4,916,480.
ref: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/ppus04.htm
• In 2005, over 7 million people were on probation, in jail or prison, or on parole at yearend 2005 -- 3.2% of all U.S. adult residents or 1 in every 32 adults.
• Data Analysis Unit Department of Corrections :
Estimates and Statistical Analysis Section State of California
Offender Information Services Branch February 2004
Felons First Released to Parole
during Calendar Year 2003: Grand Total 53,520
ref:
http://www.cya.ca.gov/ReportsResearch/OffenderInfoServices/Annual/TIME6/TIME6d2003.pdf
And there you have it…53,520 potential recurring felons were released on honest Americans in California alone. Add that number to the national statistics and you come up with 7 million potential threats as recurring offenders to society... 53,520 reasons (including murder, rape and child molestation) why every individual and/or family in America should own a firearm. Why people advocate against guns is beyond me unless their end game is to render us all helpless against a more subtle and much larger threat to our personal safety and freedom.
The reports go on:
In general:
• Released prisoners with the highest re-arrest rates were robbers (70.2%), burglars (74.0%), larcenists (74.6%), motor vehicle thieves (78.8%), those in prison for possessing or selling stolen property (77.4%), and those in prison for possessing, using, or selling illegal weapons (70.2%).
• Within 3 years, 2.5% of released rapists were arrested for another rape, and 1.2% of those who had served time for homicide were arrested for homicide.
• The 272,111 offenders discharged in 1994 had accumulated 4.1 million arrest charges before their most recent imprisonment and another 744,000 charges within 3 years of release.
06/02 NCJ 193427
Sex offenders
• Within 3 years following their release, 5.3% of sex offenders (men who had committed rape or sexual assault) were rearrested for another sex crime.
• On average the 9,691 sex offenders served 3 1/2 years of their 8-year sentence.
• Compared to non-sex offenders released from State prisons, released sex offenders were 4 times more likely to be rearrested for a sex crime.
• The 9,691 released sex offenders included 4,295 men who were in prison for child molesting.
11/03 NCJ 198281
Focus on these instances of specific acts of violence (mass murder) should be centered with emphasis on crime itself and the potential for a crime by an individual as the underlying threat, rather than the implement used in the commission thereof. People have been killing themselves since Adam and Eve. There are those elements within our society that are going to act criminally, regardless. They are going to steal, rape and kill…many are mentally disposed to heinous acts of crime and are deviant to society on the whole. Implements of death have became sophisticated over the years… from the clubs of cave men to automatic weapons…yet removing the club or automatic weapon does not reduce the potential for, or act of the crime itself. Neither does it address the mental state of criminals.
The perpetrator of the Virginia Tech mass murder was no doubt intelligent and obviously plotted the entire atrocity with a fine degree of premeditation. Upon close examination one would conclude that someone this educated could have just as easily killed as many people (or more) using an improvised explosive device, fertilizer bomb as in the Oklahoma City bombing or he could have become a serial killer and singled out his victims one by one. This tragedy points to a much larger problem…our institutions of learning’s failures to notice people that are mentally ill (and/or totally insane as with CHO) that are right in front of them on a daily basis. Taking an individuals right to bear arms away or further restricting it only impacts on ones ability to defend ones self and family against such insanity as that of the sad and deplorable incident at Virginia Tech. I cannot help but wonder what would have happened if at least the educators were armed. But statistics show them as 70% liberal thus probably against guns in the first place. But perhaps it would make better sense to arm them instead of do studies on campus security and sensitivity training or increasing the number of staff psychologists to help with grief management. Perhaps we should learn to defend ourselves a little better instead of relying on others to do it for us. Bottom line…no law has ever been struck that will stop a madman’s or criminals bullet. But common sense and ownership of a firearm has deterred many an oppressive government, many a crime, and saved many an innocent life. I have owned guns for most of my life and I can tell you I have never considered even remotely doing harm to anyone with them. I think all of us responsible, honest, patriotic, taxpaying and voting Americans that own guns share that same conviction. Thank God, and the Second Amendment and our forefathers for recognizing the ultimate importance of the right to bear arms.
Fred Lane
April 18th 2007
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